Transcript for the NAFA® RD Rules Chat October 2nd, 2012

Transcript for the NAFA^® RD Rules Chat October 2^nd, 2012

moderator	Welcome to tonight's chat. We apologize again for the technical difficulties last week. We are holding a chat for the judges at 8 pm Eastern tonight and another chat for the Rds at 9 pm Eastern tonight. We know and trust that you will work together, judges and Rds, to be role-models, and provide guidance and leadership for all flyball participants, and we encourage you to talk about rules and especially help to provide a consistent game of flyball for everyone. We want to thank each and every one of you for your hard work for Nafa.
moderator	The purpose of our chat tonight is to go over the rule changes for the 2013 racing year. This session is a joint effort of the judges and rules committees’ in order to proactively communicate the rules for the coming racing year, clear up any confusion, and answer any questions.
moderator	Normally we say, If you have any questions regarding these rules, please send them to me privately. Double click my name (moderator) on the right to send me a private message. I will group them by topic, queue them, and submit them at the end of each rule/topic. If you have a follow up question that is directly related to your question, feel free to post. But since it’s just us, please just ask. Your moderator tonight is Leerie Jenkins.
Elizabeth_Currin	I sent a question about one of the new rules to the rules e -mail address. Do you know if it was received, or should I write it out here.
moderator	I'd like to thank Dana Nichols for again agreeing to lead this session. As you all probably know, Dana is the Co-chair of the Rules Committee, and an Approved Nafa Judge. Dana, the floor is yours.
moderator	[i'll retrieve it elizabeth]
dana.nichols	Elizabeth, we'll handle questions as we get to that topic if that's Ok. I think some of what we have to say may clear up some of the questions. Well, hopefully it will. :)
dana.nichols	First, I wanted to go through equipment. There weren’t any actual rule changes here, but a couple of clarifications.
Elizabeth_Currin	Sounds great.
dana.nichols	Collars – We were asked whether electronic collars could be used for mat time practice Friday night. The answer is no. Section 1.3 - Collars and leads (from the Rules of Racing), one cannot use forbidden collars at any time when in conjunction with a Nafa event, including mat time and single/dual dog racing the night before a tournament.
dana.nichols	Thundershirts/anxiety wraps – We were asked if these could be used during racing. The answer is usually so. Racing in thundershirts or anxiety wraps should be permitted, if properly fitted.
Elizabeth_Currin	great, thanks
dana.nichols	We also had a competitor propose that we require appropriate footwear - basically asking that we prohibit people from racing barefoot.
dana.nichols	For a number of reasons, we decided not to adopt that.
dana.nichols	For one thing, our rules apply to all types of tournaments. Not just indoors on mats, but also outdoors on grass where running barefoot might be totally fine.
dana.nichols	But, if you see something unsafe, you can certainly call it to the judge's attention. Safety is always important.
dana.nichols	Next, we changed our rule to clarify that a boxloader can come off the box to reset jumps.
dana.nichols	There was some question as to whether box loaders could come off the box to reset a knocked jump. Before the rule had only allowed a box loader to come off the box during a race to retriever a loose ball or get more balls. We added some language to Section 8.3 to expressly allow a box loader to reset a jump.
dana.nichols	we just added some language Section 8.3 – The Heat (page 13 of the current rulebook) as follows: (e) Conduct of the box loader. Except during the warm-up, to retrieve a loose ball, reset a jump,
dana.nichols	Generally a box loader would only be able to safely reset jumps close to them, and even then, only when dogs are held. The rules already allow a team to send out runners to reset knocked jumps. This just clarifies that a box loader can also reset jumps.
dana.nichols	If you have any questions, please feel free to jump in. I'm trying to kind of power through where there aren't questions because we ran a little short of time with the judges.
dana.nichols	:)
Dan Wood - 7	Is it still not allowable for a loader to lean down sideways to brace the box for large dogs?
dana.nichols	No, they have to remain upright.
dana.nichols	Except to assist a deaf dog.
dana.nichols	If you'd like to propose a rule change, feel free to send it to the rules committee or to Leerie .
dana.nichols	We're always happy to take a look at things folks would like to see changed.
dana.nichols	Our Rds and judges are often in the best position to let us know about those.
dana.nichols	I think several of our rule changes this year, or clarifications, came from Elizabeth Currin.
dana.nichols	:)
Dan Wood - 7	I've watched a couple of loaders get sent flying, not to mention the box going sideways.
Elizabeth_Currin	I was thinking the same thing :)
dana.nichols	Like I said, feel free to propose it.
dana.nichols	I know a lot of teams add sandbags to their boxes if the boxloader isn't heavy enough or have high grit sandpaper on the bottom.
amanda brown	Dan, Elizabeth, I have also seen folks using weights to make the box heavier (similar to use of sandbags)
Dan Wood - 7	takes time to remove.
Elizabeth_Currin	They use weights down here. Also, office chair matting on the bottom of the box which works great!
dana.nichols	Our next rule change is regarding teams declaring performance in the multibreed class.
dana.nichols	We've really struggled with how to support multibreed, which isn't very popular in some areas. We tweaked one of the great suggestions we got when we called for feedback and turned it into this rule change, which we hope will help at least a little.
dana.nichols	We changed the rule about how performance status applies to multibreed teams. Currently teams have to follow all rules when they declare performance (jump heights, 4 breed, etc.). The only exception is that performance teams can include dogs from other clubs without violating the 87 day rule. We’ve expanded it a bit for multibreed to now say that if you declare performance, then the requirement of four different breeds does not apply.
dana.nichols	So, what that means practically, is that if a multibreed team declares performance, they can add dogs, even from their own club that are the same breeds. They could legally run all four of the same breed even (at the correct height). Performance teams do not qualify for placement and they can’t win any races, so they aren’t affecting the outcome of the class. The team would still earn points. We’re hoping this may help with some of the problems associated with running multibreed that may have resulted in the reduced numbers for multibreed.
dana.nichols	Keep in mind that under our current rules & the revised rule, teams can only declare performance in limited situations:
dana.nichols	With the permission of the Tournament Director for cause shown, a team entered in a regular or non-regular class may be converted from its original status to a Performance Team entry prior to the start of the tournament. The intent of this conversion privilege is to allow teams that have already entered a tournament but who, for unforeseen reasons, find themselves unable to field a complete team, to run for points with a dog or dogs from another club. “cause” shall include but not be limited to circumstances such as dog injury, illness, or other unforeseen situation. A team may not enter a tournament as a Performance Team.
dana.nichols	Also, remember that any performance teams must be disclosed on the seeding list prepared and circulated by the host club prior to the tournament and/or at the captain’s meeting before the racing starts so all teams know when there is a performance team in their division.
dana.nichols	Next, we'll discuss the new ready to race rule. I know this has some folks a bit unsure of how it'll be interpreted. I'm going to have Dave Walt and Leerie Jenkins jump in here at the end to field questions and addess some of those concerns. Ultimately, we purposefully left this rule up to the discretion of our judges to determine what is reasonable. We feel they are in the best position to be able to make this call and we already rely on them to use their discretion in many other aspects - aggression, interference, etc.
dana.nichols	This is a new rule that we’ve adopted for very limited circumstances. Frankly, we hope it never has to be used at all. But, we had some situations where teams were getting into the ring on time, but then were taking extraordinarily long between heats to where they were significantly delaying racing. Judges couldn’t put the teams on the clock, because they were already in the ring. Technically a judge could find a team or person was exhibiting unsportsmanlike conduct and eject them from the tournament. But there didn’t seem to be any less severe alternatives for the small number of people who were causing big delays. We decided to give judges a tool to address these concerns short of ejecting a person from a tournament.
amanda brown	ok one sec
amanda brown	wanted to ask a question
amanda brown	about the prior rule
dana.nichols	Sorry, go ahead.
amanda brown	np; wasn't sure that you were done.
dana.nichols	I'll finish up with the new rule in a minute.
dana.nichols	Sorry, I should have asked if there were any qeutsions.
dana.nichols	questions.
amanda brown	so with this new performance for multi, in limited tournaments, we will have to be a bit more careful about teams requesting to change... right?
dana.nichols	Well, should be the same as now.
dana.nichols	That part of the rule hasn't changed.
amanda brown	I can just see a place for some abuse there
dana.nichols	If you see abuse of it, that can be dealt with on an individual basis.
dana.nichols	If you see a problem, can have the Ed take care of it.
amanda brown	which is what I meant... just that I will have to watch for a pattern or abuse
dana.nichols	Yes, if you have a concern, can certainly discuss it with the Ed.
amanda brown	ok
dana.nichols	We did discuss when were considering this change, that a certain number of teams might try to use it to their advantage to get around limited tournaments
dana.nichols	And we also dreamed up a few other unsportsmanlike ways people could try to abuse it.
amanda brown	exactly
moderator	So, definitely something to keep our eyes on.
dana.nichols	We have a standard "team blackheart" that we use when we are trying to think up ways folks can tweak the rules.
amanda brown	lol
Dan Wood - 7	but isn't that the same for any limited class?
dana.nichols	Ultimately, we decided to deal with any abuses on a case by case basis.
amanda brown	not exactly because they are allowing multi to not be 4-breed for performance teams
dana.nichols	Dan, I think the concern is that a team who doesn't have 4 different dogs would enter multi just to gain an advantage in the draw and then plan to fall on the sword and claim performance.
dana.nichols	Again, if you see cheating in this, or anything else, tell the Ed. He should be able to deal with it and put a stop to it.
amanda brown	I think Dan is right though; folks could enter regular knowing that they only had 3 dogs that could go
amanda brown	we just haven't seen that so much
dana.nichols	Ok, so let me get back to the ready to race issue.
dana.nichols	If there aren't any more questions.
amanda brown	ok here
dana.nichols	:)
dana.nichols	This is a new rule that we’ve adopted for very limited circumstances. Frankly, we hope it never has to be used at all. But, we had some situations where teams were getting into the ring on time, but then were taking extraordinarily long between heats to where they were significantly delaying racing. Judges couldn’t put the teams on the clock, because they were already in the ring. Technically a judge could find a team or person was exhibiting unsportsmanlike conduct and eject them from the tournament. But there didn’t seem to be any less severe alternatives for the small number of people who were causing big delays. We decided to give judges a tool to address these concerns short of ejecting a person from a tournament.
dana.nichols	The new rule was added to Section 8.3 of the Rules of Racing:
dana.nichols	Ready to race. Teams must be ready to start each heat in a reasonable amount of time. The first unreasonable delay by a team will result in a warning by the head judge. Subsequent offenses will result in a forfeit of the heat.
dana.nichols	This was passed with the caveat that this option should only be utilized by judges in the most extreme of situations.
dana.nichols	Like we said, we hope it never has to be used at all.
dana.nichols	Questions?
Dan Wood - 7	I would like the judges to consult with the Rd so they could watch and confirm.
Elizabeth_Currin	Does the new rule deal only with time, or also the reason for the delay? For instance waiting for a pass call, getting a tug out of the dog's mouth, discussion between teammates outside the ring and a handler, etc... If the judge doesn't think the reason for any delay is valid, are they able under the rules to call it under this rule?
amanda brown	I am curious, how long was too long?
Dave.Walt	the biggest thing we stressed to our judges is that they all communicate so that they are all on the same page to be fair to the competitors
Dave.Walt	the best situation and first one that came to our mind is not having the back up dogs ring side ready to go.
moderator	Ultimately, it's a judges call to make in the ring. I suggested to the judges earlier that they might enlist their Rd, and they should also talk to fellow judges.
moderator	When trying to determine when to warn, when to call.
moderator	Judges make judgment calls about interference, aggression, blowing the heat dead for safety, distractions, etc
moderator	so this is another call for them to make
moderator	we have told them if it doesn't seem unreasonable, then it isn't
amanda brown	we hardly ever have our back up dogs ringside... it is an unexpected situation to need one... so are we saying this would be a problem?
moderator	this is really for difficult people, who are being difficult
Elizabeth_Currin	We've never had a problem with delays. I can see compeititors trying to get judges to use it, and wonder if this rule isn't going to create a problem we didn't have.
moderator	no, the example dave mentioned was for example:
Dave.Walt	if a team is running a green and did not bring the back up dog to the ring, then yes this does apply
moderator	a team Always runs dog A for the first 2 heats, and dog B for subsequent heats
moderator	yet Each and Every race leaves to some remote crating location to trade out dogs
Dave.Walt	if a dog gets hurt, well no one envisioned that happening so maybe not. again, its the judges decision
moderator	Where safety, or an injury is concerned, there is no unreasonable.
amanda brown	ok
Dan Wood - 7	I find at times teams listen better and react to fix issues when not directed by a judge in the ring. Like when the Rd has a chat with them right after a race they did it.
moderator	If you 3 are having difficulties imagining scenarios, then good, your region probably will never see this called.
moderator	And that's great that you can fill that role Dan.
Dan Wood - 7	oh I've seen a lot of it both as a judge and rd.
moderator	I'm sure your judges and other competitors appreciate it.
Dave.Walt	we are not saying this is a wide spread issue, it is just another tool for our judges to us to help move the day along
amanda brown	happy birthday to Bill Bunting!!!
moderator	Happy Birthday Bill!
Dan Wood - 7	Hbd
Elizabeth_Currin	I agree Dan. It seems a chat with the Rd outside the ring goes further than a discussion with the judge in the ring for certain situations. Happy Birthday Bill!
moderator	So, this is a tool for judges. There are some teeth.
Dave.Walt	that was the only option before since the judges really had nothing to work with once they got to the ring. we think now that they have this to use, there will be no need for the rd to be involved.
moderator	Before the only option would have been for a judge to excuse a competitor for unsportsmanlike behavior.
Bill Bunting	Thanks - That's why I was late,just got back from birthday dinner.
moderator	We didn't put a time limit on it, because frankly, that would encourage some difficult people to take the entire allotted time, between each and every heat.
Dave.Walt	we can not list every situation because there are many factors involved. we feel that we have educated our judges enough that they will not abuse this new rule
Dave.Walt	if you feel a judge is not using the rule correctly, then contact me and we will talk with them
moderator	And if you have a concern about a judge abusing this, or any rule, please bring it to the attention of the chair of the judges commiteee.
amanda brown	ok, that seems reasonable. I do think that Dan or Elizabeth alluded to a good point though. Lots of times, a word from the judge to their Rd can go a long way. I know all of the competitors and captains and often if I just go and chat with them, the problem is resolved
dana.nichols	We've got about 20 minutes left and few other issues to cover. Are we Ok to move on to the next area?
dana.nichols	We have a new excusal form this year. It's a fairly substantial modification from the old form.
dana.nichols	We were nearing the end of our supply of the 4 part excusal forms, so we decided to do some revisions to the form before we re-ordered. One thing we are often missing on the forms is clear information on any witnesses who may have observed the incident. We also wanted to make sure it was clear when dogs were being excused for aggression & when they were excused for something else, including not being ready for racing.
dana.nichols	So, the new form is divided into two sections. For non-aggression excusals, you do not need witness statements, just the judge’s summary of the incident. For aggression excusals you’ll provide all the information.
dana.nichols	Sorry, the judge will provide. Copy pasted the info from the judges chat
dana.nichols	:)
dana.nichols	Another note is that we voted to go to a 2 part form (original and one copy) instead of the 4 part form. The bottom two copies were nearly always illegible and the 4 part forms are extremely expensive to print. We also found that most judges were scanning and emailing us the excusal and were sending the copies electronically. We love this. It’s much easier for us to work with as well.
dana.nichols	So, the idea for the new forms is that the judge will give the copy to the owner/handler there at the tournament. This way the owner/handler has something in hand explaining exactly what happened, the date of the excusal, reason, etc. Then the judge has the responsibility under the rules to still provide a copy to the Rd and to Nafa. Most judges will continue to scan and email the copies, but what it may mean is that the Rds won't get a copy at the site, they'll get it by email later.
amanda brown	that sounds great. I can always take a photo of it with my phone at that time
Dan Wood - 7	Nafa ipads and printers!!
dana.nichols	If a judge doesn’t have the ability to scan and email the form, there are still a few options. They can copy the form (at Kinko’s or wherever) and then mail it to the Rd and to Nafa (or fax). Or, if nothing else, they can just take two forms and fill them both out the same and distribute those 4 pages. The copies are supposed to be distributed within 10 days of the tournament.
dana.nichols	Yeah, the board doesn't even get Nafa ipads and printers.
dana.nichols	:)
amanda brown	haha Dan
dana.nichols	We appreciate any help on this issue. Some of our judges are more technologically savvy than others.
Dan Wood - 7	acer tablet is $250
dana.nichols	Bottom line the old 4 part forms weren't readable anyway.
Elizabeth_Currin	$250 per region and Bod sounds reasonable :)
dana.nichols	We welcome proposals.
dana.nichols	:)
Bill Bunting	The old form was outdated and could never be read, this is a good change. It would be good to have a place to note if a previous write-up was given to the dog.
Elizabeth_Currin	I feel going away from thet 4-part form is a very good move.
Elizabeth_Currin	Good point Bill
dana.nichols	The person writing up the dog doesn't always know.
dana.nichols	But, Bill, the Review Panel keeps really good records now.
dana.nichols	Leerie is very good about contacting the owner right away by email with the status and their rights to appeal, etc.
dana.nichols	That's why we now want the judges getting the contact person for the owner/handler of the dog.
Elizabeth_Currin	Can the review panel track if a owner is consistently bringing problem dogs to tournaments?
dana.nichols	We don't always have current email or other contact information for the person in the database.
dana.nichols	I don't think we've seen that, but even if we did, each dog is entitled to be judges on it's own merits.
dana.nichols	Don't want this to become a sitution of banning one person or one breeders or one breed of dog.
dana.nichols	But, if you see something unsportsmanlike, please report it to the Ed and he'll take care of it right away.
Elizabeth_Currin	I agree each dog should have their own hearing. Glad to hear it isn't a problem.
moderator	I'm not aware of anyone having two dogs get written up twice though. I feel confident it isn't widespread.
dana.nichols	Also wanted to point out that the new form provides a specific check box for excusing dogs for just not being ready to race yet. This is a non-agression excusal. Was always an option for judges, but we've now put a box so they don't have to check other for that.
dana.nichols	This would be for dogs not that don't have a great turn or are spitting the ball, but a dog that is creating a hazard in the lane by crossing, etc.
dana.nichols	Any further questions?
Bill Bunting	Is there a place we can review what dogs have been written up?
dana.nichols	They are published in the minutes under the Review Panel section.
dana.nichols	We have just a few minutes left and I'd like to go over fairly quickly a few other rules I think you guys are going to get questions about.
Dan Wood - 7	text file on the tablet ::huh
moderator	Lol
dana.nichols	Hall of Fame eligibility change - applies to next year, not the current election.
dana.nichols	We’ve changed the eligibility requirements for dogs to be nominated for the Hall of Fame. The vast majority of dogs who are inducted are dogs who have already retired and had lengthy careers. So, we decided to change the requirements to specify that dogs may not have earned Nafa points within 18 months of the close of the nominating period. It doesn’t mean a dog can’t ever race again, but we’re hoping that this rule change will encourage nomination of dogs who are at the end of a distinguished career or who have even already passed away. The Mvp awards recognize outstanding achievement by region for dogs who are currently racing.
dana.nichols	This won’t be in effect for the current election. It will start for next year’s nomination period which will run August 1 – September 30, 2013.
dana.nichols	Couple more changes to go through.
dana.nichols	New delegate counts for this election. Just a reminder that the new delegate counts will be in effect for this election that ends January 2013. Regional directors and all judges at the approved level or higher still receive one vote for service (as do board members & the Ed). The change is for club accruals. Clubs can earn up to 15 votes. votes earned through team entries are based on the new schedule in the rule book and are assessed per tournament week (meaning entries are generally now based on a per weekend basis, rather than per tournament basis). votes earned for hosting tournaments are earned per tournament day (meaning hosting 2 one-day tournaments = 2 votes, hosting 1 two-day tournament = 2 votes). The idea behind this change was to make it more equivalent for clubs who host or run in multi-day tournaments and those who run in tournaments hosted one per day. Also, you get more voting power for hosting tournaments, which we hope will help encourage clubs to host.
dana.nichols	Any questions>
dana.nichols	?
moderator	Bill the Ed keeps a list of aggression excusals also, if you had a specific question or concern, you could ask him.
amanda brown	sorry was reading all the text
Elizabeth_Currin	Hi Karen :)
amanda brown	sounds good
dana.nichols	I've just got 2 more to go through.
dana.nichols	First is regarding elimination brackets in the appendix to the rules.
dana.nichols	We modified some of the elimination brackets in the appendix to the rulebook. We identified some inconsistencies between the brackets, especially for the brackets with the alternate formats. The new brackets will be posted with the rule book and are posted with the minutes from the August 11, 2013 meeting.
dana.nichols	It was mainly for the alt formats. Leerie found several errors and inconsistencies so he went through and fixed them all.
dana.nichols	They are hopefully all correct now.
dana.nichols	If you identify any errors, please let us know.
dana.nichols	The last issue is regarding regional championships.
amanda brown	great. thank you Leerie
dana.nichols	The language for our rule on how regional champions are calculated has not been super easy to read. We get lots of questions about how regional champions are determined. We tried to clarify the rule this year. It isn’t a change from how they are currently being calculated, but we hope it’s a little easier to understand.
dana.nichols	One thing we specifically added to the rule is language about competing in at least four in region tournaments. We’ve had a bit of confusion in this area. For a club to be eligible for regional champions, they have to compete in at least four tournaments in region in that class (regular or multibreed). But, we have some regions where not all of those tournaments have enough teams to have regional points (this especially applies for multibreed). We have repeatedly said those tournaments still count towards a club’s four tournaments. They’ll have to have at least one tournament where regional points are awarded to be able to be a regional champion. So, we specifically added this language into the rule.
dana.nichols	(e) A Club must compete in a minimum of four tournaments in separate tournament weeks within its home region in the Class for which the Regional Championship is awarded, [one of which must qualify for regional points.] - I added brackets around the language we added because underline doesn't show up here.
dana.nichols	No change from what we are already doing. But, we wanted to make sure it was especially clear for regions where this may affect whether they even have a multibreed regional champion for the racing year. So, if a team gets only one or two entries in multibreed, they can still hold the class. It will still count towards those clubs competing in four tournaments. And, it might mean there will actually be a multibreed regional champion that year.
Dan Wood - 7	regional points app on your ...... wait for it ............ tablet
amanda brown	^^ love it ^^
Elizabeth_Currin	@ Dan :)
dana.nichols	Sigh.
amanda brown	where is the Like button
moderator	All new acer tablets graciously donated by Region 7! Thanks region 7!
moderator	:D
dana.nichols	Perhaps this is a new business venture for you Dan. Developing apps for Nafa flyball competitors.
dana.nichols	I'm sure folks would jump at it.
dana.nichols	For real.
dana.nichols	I'd like to request they work on Android phones please. :)
Dan Wood - 7	easy squeezy
moderator	Ok, any more questions?
dana.nichols	I think that's all the areas we really needed to address tonight. I want to thank you all for your work for Nafa and all the competitors in flyball.
dana.nichols	Rds have a huge amount of work and we really appreciate all you do.
amanda brown	thanks for holding the chat
dana.nichols	We're glad to do it.
Dan Wood - 7	thanks for clarifications
dana.nichols	If you have any suggestions for us for rule changes or anything else, please contact us.
Dave.Walt	thanks for attending tonight and if you ever have any concerns with a judge, feel free to let me know and we will talk it over with the judge
dana.nichols	We really value your suggestions.
moderator	Thank you all for coming, and thanks Dana for presenting. We will have a transcript up on your yahoogroup asap.
moderator	[RD Transcript Ends Here]